Alexandria
It is hard not to comment on the incidents in Alexandria, one of my favorite cities. Simply as I heard and read; a film was shown in a church in Alexandria that talks about how a Christian convert to Islam then discover all the bad stuff about Islam and switch back feeling found again. I do not know what happened exactly after or before from a trusted source, but what happened after was the reaction of Muslims toward that! it was violent and controversial. This what I am aware of from sources talking about the incidents like the media; aljazeera, alsaffir Lebanese newspaper, Egyptian Al-Ahram, words of the mouth ..etc.
Now, what is my position on this; It is as follows; there has been controversial pushs and pulls between Egyptian Muslims and Copts lately. There have been tensions that were originated from normal human reactions exactly that happen within Muslims and those among Copts such as a fight over selling or buying or children playing in the street and hitting each others ..etc but the “thing” is that such incidents happen in low income, low educated, closed minded communities. So the issue of the other is so badly perceived specially when the other is other because of his religion. Not only that, but also he is from “an-other” religion that I (metaphor for him) perceive as ops “wrong”. Ahh well, Muslims are following the philosophy of someone (Sala Allah alieh wa sallam [peace be upon him]) and it is not a heavenly faith!
No no, Christians are following the deviated faith that was correct and following the path of monotheism but clergy at certain times manipulated the issue of “the son of God”!
Well that is what exactly both sides are saying about each others, usually at least.
So, the difference is crystal clear and it is there all the time despite all the nice diplomatic statements of politicians and clergy as well about brotherhood and mutual respect ..etc.
Despite that big difference, I do believe that by stopping those sticky diplomatic statements
and really making people aware that it is fine to have those differences and live together. It s reality and our prophet peace be upon him and his followers knew it and survived and dealt with the people of the book in so harmonies ways unless there are attacks from them then they will put themselves in the position of enemies by their own choices.
My conclusion now is;
Yes we are different (now I am referring to myself too belonging to one group; Muslims). We are not so aware of those big and fundamental differences and this in itself makes a gap between the two (I am talking about Egypt). Too much diplomacy and politicizing the issue have been taking place for ages by the government in order to control everyone. There are real links and bonds between “the people” from both sides that is historic and deep rooted. Lately, fanaticism has been growing on both sides, to alienate the other. In Islam, we look to Christians as people of the book, in return they don’t. from our side Muslims, there were several groups and experiences that created and maintained the ideology of “takfeer” (promoting that the other or anyone who doesn’t follow my ideology is “Kafir” or infidel). In Christianity, I am not so aware of concrete example at least not in Egypt but I know about Kosovo, and Bosnia.
Now how all that related to Alexandria; another set of conclusions;
1- It was so wrong and not clear intentioned to show and promote that film by Egyptian Christians and in a church.
2- It was equally wrong to attack the nun, and the church as a person who should not be punished by the mistake of other and should not punished by the crowd, where is the authority and a justified investigation or otherwise it is a forest! And as a place –church- it should not be harmed as it s a place of worship of a divinely religion that we as Muslims “have to” believe in Jesus Christ as a prophet and in Christianity as a religion from the one God.
3- The responsible about producing the film and promoting it should be investigated and trialed if necessary.
4- Those responsible of the attacks on the church and the nun, should be also punished and trailed according to law and justice.
5- Finally I want someone of those who did both actions; can they provide me with an evidence from any historic or modern time and or from any religious reference that justify what they did (insulting Islam as in the film or attacking places or worship)
6- More finally; because the Egyptian government is not a democratic state, it s subject and us –citizens- are subject to manipulation of fanatic Christians and those behind them (the west, the US in particular that wants to see more so called “freedom”) that makes them always spoiled and able to pressure the government and get away with their actions, I read a comment by poor woman saying do I have to have a pope behind me to get my kid out of jail. Her son probably was jailed without trail in connection to one of those Muslim-Christian conflicts and he will stay their and treated like shish cause he is a poor Muslim and no one from the religious institution would do anything for him. For me I don’t want anyone do anything for anyone, all people are equal before God and before His laws. Amr Ibn Al-Aas who was the governor of Egypt during the time of Omar Ibn AlKhattab rule of the Muslim caliphate; Amr’s son hurt and insulted a Copt in Egypt and the Copt complained to Omar, Omar ordered Amr to bring his son to Madina in Saudi Arabia now, gave him hard time and send the 3 of them (Amr, his son and the Copt) back to Egypt with an order to make the Copt hit Amr’s son in public place as the other did to him. Omar said to the Copt hit the son of the elite (as the son of Amr told the Copt before I am the son of the elites)
7- So where are we now from what Omar did, Islam is about justice and only justice without fanaticism. While it is also justice for Muslims who are being treating like in Palestine and Iraq. In other words, when we Muslim practice Islam as it was practiced by Prophet Mohamed peace be upon him, Muslims in Palestine, Egypt, Iraq and elsewhere will not be treated like this. “Be strong without violence, and lean (kind) without weakness” this is the rule.
It is hard not to comment on the incidents in Alexandria, one of my favorite cities. Simply as I heard and read; a film was shown in a church in Alexandria that talks about how a Christian convert to Islam then discover all the bad stuff about Islam and switch back feeling found again. I do not know what happened exactly after or before from a trusted source, but what happened after was the reaction of Muslims toward that! it was violent and controversial. This what I am aware of from sources talking about the incidents like the media; aljazeera, alsaffir Lebanese newspaper, Egyptian Al-Ahram, words of the mouth ..etc.
Now, what is my position on this; It is as follows; there has been controversial pushs and pulls between Egyptian Muslims and Copts lately. There have been tensions that were originated from normal human reactions exactly that happen within Muslims and those among Copts such as a fight over selling or buying or children playing in the street and hitting each others ..etc but the “thing” is that such incidents happen in low income, low educated, closed minded communities. So the issue of the other is so badly perceived specially when the other is other because of his religion. Not only that, but also he is from “an-other” religion that I (metaphor for him) perceive as ops “wrong”. Ahh well, Muslims are following the philosophy of someone (Sala Allah alieh wa sallam [peace be upon him]) and it is not a heavenly faith!
No no, Christians are following the deviated faith that was correct and following the path of monotheism but clergy at certain times manipulated the issue of “the son of God”!
Well that is what exactly both sides are saying about each others, usually at least.
So, the difference is crystal clear and it is there all the time despite all the nice diplomatic statements of politicians and clergy as well about brotherhood and mutual respect ..etc.
Despite that big difference, I do believe that by stopping those sticky diplomatic statements
and really making people aware that it is fine to have those differences and live together. It s reality and our prophet peace be upon him and his followers knew it and survived and dealt with the people of the book in so harmonies ways unless there are attacks from them then they will put themselves in the position of enemies by their own choices.My conclusion now is;
Yes we are different (now I am referring to myself too belonging to one group; Muslims). We are not so aware of those big and fundamental differences and this in itself makes a gap between the two (I am talking about Egypt). Too much diplomacy and politicizing the issue have been taking place for ages by the government in order to control everyone. There are real links and bonds between “the people” from both sides that is historic and deep rooted. Lately, fanaticism has been growing on both sides, to alienate the other. In Islam, we look to Christians as people of the book, in return they don’t. from our side Muslims, there were several groups and experiences that created and maintained the ideology of “takfeer” (promoting that the other or anyone who doesn’t follow my ideology is “Kafir” or infidel). In Christianity, I am not so aware of concrete example at least not in Egypt but I know about Kosovo, and Bosnia.
Now how all that related to Alexandria; another set of conclusions;
1- It was so wrong and not clear intentioned to show and promote that film by Egyptian Christians and in a church.
2- It was equally wrong to attack the nun, and the church as a person who should not be punished by the mistake of other and should not punished by the crowd, where is the authority and a justified investigation or otherwise it is a forest! And as a place –church- it should not be harmed as it s a place of worship of a divinely religion that we as Muslims “have to” believe in Jesus Christ as a prophet and in Christianity as a religion from the one God.
3- The responsible about producing the film and promoting it should be investigated and trialed if necessary.
4- Those responsible of the attacks on the church and the nun, should be also punished and trailed according to law and justice.
5- Finally I want someone of those who did both actions; can they provide me with an evidence from any historic or modern time and or from any religious reference that justify what they did (insulting Islam as in the film or attacking places or worship)
6- More finally; because the Egyptian government is not a democratic state, it s subject and us –citizens- are subject to manipulation of fanatic Christians and those behind them (the west, the US in particular that wants to see more so called “freedom”) that makes them always spoiled and able to pressure the government and get away with their actions, I read a comment by poor woman saying do I have to have a pope behind me to get my kid out of jail. Her son probably was jailed without trail in connection to one of those Muslim-Christian conflicts and he will stay their and treated like shish cause he is a poor Muslim and no one from the religious institution would do anything for him. For me I don’t want anyone do anything for anyone, all people are equal before God and before His laws. Amr Ibn Al-Aas who was the governor of Egypt during the time of Omar Ibn AlKhattab rule of the Muslim caliphate; Amr’s son hurt and insulted a Copt in Egypt and the Copt complained to Omar, Omar ordered Amr to bring his son to Madina in Saudi Arabia now, gave him hard time and send the 3 of them (Amr, his son and the Copt) back to Egypt with an order to make the Copt hit Amr’s son in public place as the other did to him. Omar said to the Copt hit the son of the elite (as the son of Amr told the Copt before I am the son of the elites)
7- So where are we now from what Omar did, Islam is about justice and only justice without fanaticism. While it is also justice for Muslims who are being treating like in Palestine and Iraq. In other words, when we Muslim practice Islam as it was practiced by Prophet Mohamed peace be upon him, Muslims in Palestine, Egypt, Iraq and elsewhere will not be treated like this. “Be strong without violence, and lean (kind) without weakness” this is the rule.
posted by Kanaba @ 11:22 PM
1 comments
1 Comments:
Dear Kanaba; Peace be with you and "kol sana wenta tayeb". I too am an Egyptian and love Egypt very much. I do however belong "the others"...I'm a Copt :)
I salute your honesty and call for openness, we should celebrate our differences and learn to live together so we won't be "us" and "them". In the spirit of being open and honest please allow me to comment on your post.
*"Lately, fanaticism has been growing on both sides, to alienate the other"
Forgive me but when has a Christian in Egypt attacked a mosque or when did you ever hear about a priest calling his congregation to go attack the Muslims because they're poisoning the wells (this happened in a mosque after the Friday prayer in el Kosheh)?? Speaking of El Kosheh, there were about 23 people killed...only two were Muslims. The rest were Coptic women, children and young men.
*"In Islam, we look to Christians as people of the book, in return they don’t."
Christians believe that salvation was completed when Jesus died on the cross and rose from the dead. We also believe He is the son of God. That is what we believed for 2000 years. Any Muslim would tell you they think this is "ishrak" and that this is not the true Christianity. So in a way Muslims DON'T look at Christians as people of the book.
Besides, Christians may not look at Muslims as people of the book but that doesn't make us fair game, or a punching bag. We also don't recognise other faiths, and other faiths don't acknowledge us...thats fine. That's your point about living together even with our differences.
*"1- It was so wrong and not clear intentioned to show and promote that film by Egyptian Christians and in a church."
Why? Becuase it offended Islam? But you can't know that for sure if you haven't seen it.
*"- The responsible about producing the film and promoting it should be investigated and trialed if necessary."
Excellent!! great suggestion. I'm with you there but on one condition.
Anyone who publishes, or broadcasts material offending Christians should also be trialed. I nominate Egyptian TV, several minibus drivers(for playing those cassette tapes of fanatic Imams calling Christians infidels), Ahmad Deedat, Sheikh Sharawi, all Imams who call their people to attack our churches....
the list goes on my friend!
The difference is that we hear and see the insult with our ears and eyes. We must endure the humiliation and are never given the chance to response. The play you talk about, which sparked all this fury was shown to a small group of church attendants...none of them Muslims. How could it have possibly have hurt you as much as we've been hurting for hundreds of years??
Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts, and hearing me out. God Bless You.
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